Speaker 0 00:00:02 Welcome to the emerging minds podcast. This podcast is part of a series called listening to the stories of healing within the series. You will hear stories from community and the very diverse experiences of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, and how these narratives have shaped the amazing work that is happening in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities across Australia here at emerging minds, we like to call it the sacred garden, the stories and experiences that non Aboriginal people don't always get to see or hear whilst these stories include sadness and hurts and sometimes can feel uncomfortable to listen to it is through listening to these narratives that you will get a glimpse of the deep wisdom, knowledge and healing practices of families and communities, and understand why our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples a part of the oldest continuing culture in the world. Welcome everyone.
Speaker 0 00:01:03 This is Donna Shen an Aboriginal cultural consultant working with emerging minds. Sue hunter is a strong <inaudible> woman who works to support cultural healing of the Aboriginal community. Recently appointed as a UROC justice commissioner. She is a social worker who was committed to self termination, advocating for the rights of Aboriginal children, young people and families and strengthening culture within our families and communities. Previously, she was the sector development manager of snake, the national voice for children and co-chair of the family matters came Payne. SueAnn has worked in the Aboriginal child and family welfare sector for 18 years. This included having oversight of all the cultural clinical healing services at Victorian Aboriginal childcare agency or Vaca, and was a central point for the development of an integrated culturally appropriate and trauma informed approach. Thank you so much for joining us. Suzanne, do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself first?
Speaker 1 00:02:00 I'm a laundry woman. Um, my background really is social work and a form of therapy I've worked in at-home care who it's been roughly around 20 years and that's right across the board in different many different roles. But I think the thing around working in that field is particularly is I'm really passionate about the next generation and how do we start? Look, we can't do healing in one generation and we all know that it takes a couple, but you know, just starting that process, particularly for our most vulnerable, who've been removed and really fighting, I guess, for kids to get home, I'm really fighting for changes in legislation and systems that can assist our mob rather than work against us. Yeah, it's a pretty difficult space I guess, to hold, but, you know, it's led me in so many different directions, um, and different spaces.
Speaker 1 00:02:55 So I did also done, went to Italy to do some study and it was for Harvard medical school and it was at trauma recovery program. So now master's certificate in former recovery from Harvard was amazing, was an amazing experience. There's a lot of, um, people from around the world, first nations people. So there's only 60 people each year. And so just connecting with them and sharing stories and ways of healing and ways of being and all that sort of stuff was really, it was a great experience and I'm really big on bringing culture into the space as well for our kids, really fascinated with how culture is protective and drives resilience for our kids. So always looking at different ways of doing bits of research with some different universities at the moment, just being part of that to draw out what are the elements of it that do that. And I think because we live in such a modern world and we've lost some history about how we bring those together because culture's evolving and how do I bring those together with culture as a base to make it safe is something I love doing.
Speaker 0 00:03:57 Did you see similarities? We know there is such diversity in indigenous cultures from across the world, but were there themes of similarity as well?
Speaker 1 00:04:06 Uh, there's a lot the spirituality, the ancestors, the, um, the care for country and then not owning of it. And you know, how it supplies you with so much nourishment, you know, spiritually and physically and emotionally, and then sort of, you know, how that been taken as well, but how people are reclaiming it as well. So, and what's similar is also that we tell our stories of former and hurt, but we also tell our stories of resilience and I found that real common thread, but I think the connection to the old people and the connection to country was really, really important for the majority of I've spoken to. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:04:48 I find it really amazing how cultures do this across the world and, uh, unfortunately Western ways of doing things trust to break that apart.
Speaker 1 00:04:58 Yeah. But there's also, I think there's things like, you know, people do walking meditation, there's a thing called forest meditation or forest therapy. And I remember first coming across it and look, there's nothing wrong with it because it's exactly what our people used to do. So I'm like, wow, that's what we used to do. Or that deep, where people talk about, you know, before sort of the whole, the deary and Annie, Miriam did all that work, people would talk about counseling about being present and listening, like really being in the moment. And I'm like, that's exactly what my Nan taught me that, you know, and you can have moments of silence and you can sit in that. So when I talk about bringing, you know, Western therapies and Cod together, there's some similarities there and you can bring them together because our culture underpins it because that's where it sort of started. If that makes sense. Yeah. So
Speaker 0 00:05:51 Do you want to tell me a little bit about the over-representation of Aboriginal children in care?
Speaker 1 00:05:57 It's roughly around 10%, roughly or 10 times more likely if you're an Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander child to be removed than a non Aboriginal child. And so that has increased over 10 years and if we don't intervene, it's going to double in the next 10 years, which will be more than stolen generation. So it is about a call to action and it is about how do we change the system. And so the things that, um, when we talk about over representation, there's a lot that's involved in that, but I think that the sort of one factor that remains in that is the, um, it's connected to pass policies and practices so colonization. And when the stolen generation time of what happened to our kids around that time, then there comes the offset of that. So the intergenerational trauma, um, the poverty or the socioeconomic disadvantage, the institutional racism, that's still around today and also the racist structures.
Speaker 1 00:06:53 So that Western models that are set up, um, particularly not for our families, um, they sort of work we're quite against our families, poor access to safe, affordable, and quality housing is a big one at the moment because there's, I guess there's a shortage of housing exposure to family violence, mental health issues. There's also the lack of understanding of cultural difference. And so people don't understand that so children may be removed because of people not understanding that and the current legislations and policies, um, that are failing our kids. So, and they're not addressing the inequalities about families or kids. So it's quite complex. And out of all of that comes, you know, a range of symptoms and issues that our mob are left with, particularly, you know, the intergenerational trauma and what comes with that.
Speaker 0 00:07:46 I spoke a little bit about institutional racism. Do you want to give our listeners a little bit of an insight of what that might look like in the child protection system?
Speaker 1 00:07:56 So really the child protection system is a Western model and it looks at, for instance, this isn't now. So this was previous and it's in our lifetime that if you are an Aboriginal child and you reported to the child protection system, if you were under, I think it was on two and an Aboriginal child, they are two risk factors to just being Aboriginal major risk factor of being removed. And that's not that long ago, you've got a system that looks at overcrowding. It's not safe there. It's not, you know, we do have people coming and going and we do put our mattresses in the lounge room and, or, you know, there's lots that we do that, um, is an understood, you know, we're beat with mob. If we're struggling, someone will take on someone else's kids. That's just what we do. But that's seen as a deficit, not something that's positive that, that the child is getting more from somewhere else and still getting the love and connection, because we know now on his luck, our mums and it's that closeness. So it's things around cultural differences that just aren't understood and become that get in the way and don't work with a European system. So I think that's sort of how it works, if that's a good enough example, what
Speaker 0 00:09:13 Are your biggest concerns for Aboriginal children in the child protection system or out of home care system?
Speaker 1 00:09:20 Yeah. So my biggest, I guess, fear is that they're removed from family and community. So, you know, we've got the Aboriginal child placement principle back, depending on where you are, how that's adhered to. So, and I'm just talking about the actual placement of a child there. And so it sort of keeps the child closer to the family and then sort of goes out from there a child that's put in a non Aboriginal foster care placement is more likely to lose connection to family and community. Then in turn lose connection to culture, which is a protective factor. And there's a range of issues that arise from not having your culture. And that's around understanding who you are, your identity, what it means to be an Aboriginal person. If you don't have those relationships to other Aboriginal people that are Keith Keenan community, they're your cultural anchor, that's just the term I like to use.
Speaker 1 00:10:20 So that there'll be the anchor that connects you to culture. And that makes sense of being an Aboriginal person. And it makes sense of everything sort of the world around you. If you're brought up in a completely different culture or a completely different way of being, but, you know, and I guess, you know, we've all heard stories from stolen generation around, you know, I knew I was missing something, but I didn't know what it was. And I didn't, you know, you can see what's happened and that disconnect. And then those teenage years are quite informative for our, you know, our kids. And that's where they're trying to figure out where they fit in the world, who they are, you know, all that. And if they don't know what it means to be an Aboriginal person and that's them, then that causes a great deal of unrest, higher rates of suicide, you know, forming attachments, you know, before that they should have that pride of being an Aboriginal child and bad enough in society that, that sometimes that gets lost for our kids. But if we can instill that, particularly for our kids in our home kids, it's protective and it resilience making. And I think the biggest thing is that, that loss of connection. And once you, once you lose that, it's really hard to get back. You
Speaker 0 00:11:35 Spoke a little bit about protective factors. Do you want to unpack what that looks like? If you're a non Aboriginal person working with a child and kinship or out of home care, what does it mean?
Speaker 1 00:11:46 Well, when we talk about it as Aboriginal people and in a cultural sense, those protective factors are that it gives you a sense of belonging. So if you've got a sense of belonging, because that's the sort of innate human needs, we want to belong when we want to be connected. And really good example is some of our young girls that aren't connected. And, you know, I've seen it over, over so many years is that there's no healing done and they're not connected. It ends up down the wrong path. And you're looking for love with whatever man comes your way or, you know, and it's, and because they're so vulnerable, they're more likely for whatever sort of happens, being part of something bigger than yourself. And we all know this is makes sense of the world makes sense in meaning that's the biggest protective factor is being connected to culture, country, community as an Aboriginal child.
Speaker 1 00:12:39 And seriously, you know, just go back over, 'em bringing them home report those accounts of those adults. Now telling me a story they're horrific. And you think that would toll the shameful to be Aboriginal. That connection gives you so much more than you, um, realize it's just, it's huge, right? And sometimes I find it as an Aboriginal woman. I find hard to explain because it's a sense of failing. It connects us to our country. It connects us to our cultural practices. It then connects us to the old people and the ancestors. You might, it's a holistic way of being, and particularly understanding social, emotional wellbeing. It's all of the body. It's all it's mind, body spirit. And it's that connection, you know, people might say, oh, you know, your culture's gone. It's actually not, it's just evolved. And it looks different, but that sense of belonging, it's huge. And if you see a child that's been brought up in community to a child has been brought up in care disconnected. There's a huge, huge gap in a lot of things. Um, you know, even the developmental needs, some of those milestones amiss. So
Speaker 0 00:13:44 What does disconnection from culture really main for children in out of home care? You mentioned it before, but is there anything else that you wanted to add?
Speaker 1 00:13:53 I guess if our kids are denied, you know, that crucial part of their developing identity, connection and belonging, it contributes to that long-term resilience plus a sense of self. That sense of self needs to be well, we know if you haven't got that, there's bits missing that that's, there's no self esteem. We just sort of a frightened person in a big world, but it also means that we've got another generation that's not stolen generation, but lost to culture and then, you know, lost to the community. So there's lots in it that, that attack, like you could call it attachment to community. And culture is really, really vital for someone of a different culture. And there's lots of studies done overseas around kids adopted of two different nationalities and different cultures and how you actually can't give it because you don't have it. So you need to be immersed in it to be able to, um, get a sense, a good sense of self. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:14:51 So if you were to explain to a non Aboriginal practitioner, the kinds of support systems or practices that might be behind that family who was presenting, what would they be? What would they be looking for
Speaker 1 00:15:05 One, we need to remember that all our cultures are different. So it's going to look different in each community. And so that keep keeping that in mind, depending on where you're working, we need to remember that our definition of family is different to that of mainstream. So it includes a lot more than just mum, dad, and the kids. So there's others around, you know, I always say, if you look hard enough, you'll find that one person that, that kid trusts that that kid has whole, it might be an auntie. It might be a cousin, but just keep looking there, there, it doesn't particularly have to be mum or dad. Um, and I think that gets forgotten and lost to be that our child rearing practices, uh, collective rather than individual. So that, that saying that it takes a village to raise a child is so true for our community and being able to see that as a strength, rather than it, a deficit that, you know, they're always over their place.
Speaker 1 00:16:01 Well, that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. I think the other thing is that our older kids, sometimes after our younger kids and take on that responsibility and it's not that we're not watching, it might look like we're not watching, but it's that learning and growing that way, you know, we have a bit more trust in our kids. I think then, you know, non Aboriginal people. Yeah. And so it looks a bit, a bit different. So it's not that they were always around, like the adults are always around. Um, and the kids have an app just a little bit more responsibility, I would say than, uh, a non-indigenous family, um, that the elders of our families, uh, really, really important and their advice and guidance should be taken highly into account. And I also think our families are harder on themselves than anybody else could be.
Speaker 1 00:16:54 And so if you go and speak to a Nan or, you know, so there's a program called Aboriginal family led decision-making. And so you bring the family together and they just sort of decide as a collective what outcomes they would really want. And my God I'm like you serious, like they're harsh on each other. And they're real because they want the best for the kids. And those men's and pops are growled that family, if there's something wrong and sort of pull them back into line, but using that as well because of the love and affection that they want for their kids, that understanding that, you know, the elders play a huge role in outcomes and including them in decision in decision-making. And I think the other thing is what are the cultural practices of that family, or how well are they connected to culture understanding that some families are really connected and some families are not as connected and how as non Aboriginal people, we can facilitate that.
Speaker 1 00:17:49 It's not that you do it, but you facilitate that happening. And I think having the guts to facilitate that, because I know people get stuck in culture and get scared and they don't know it. So they just don't want to go there, but you going to learn a lot more from whoever you're working with and taking that journey with them, then just ignoring the cultures in the room, simple things like return to countries and taking people back on countries, having yarns outside instead of in a office, a dare chair. So, you know, you can go for walk, you don't, it doesn't always have to be, you know, what's comfortable. What can you do doing things a little bit differently without the rigidness of the, of that being a particular meeting. And also I think our families really, um, they highly regard people that are upfront and straight with them. So, you know, my motto was always to go in and say, these are our bottom lines for these children. That's it we're gonna work really well together. If you go there, that's when the children, um, there's a problem with the children because they need to be safe. And so if you've always got bottom lines, then they're always saying, I'll look, we're going backwards. Like, what have we done? What do we need? And I've found them asking more for help rather than going below those lines of what's unsafe for the kids.
Speaker 0 00:19:05 I heard you speak about a little earlier about healing trauma through evidence-based ways, but also integrating this with a cultural base. Tell me a little more about this.
Speaker 1 00:19:16 Yeah, I guess, um, many of our mob and me personally, we've lost a lot of our old healing ways or we are trying to recover them or we're trying to reclaim them and there's not a lot there. So what I do know or what I do have, I try and use that to the best of my ability to bring culture as a foundation of safety, into the room and connection. So any therapeutic approach that I use I'll use the foundation of culture. So I could facilitate something on country, hold them rather than, um, in a room our mob use or have, um, a history of possum skin, cloak X. Um, and so, you know, for instance, women's groups, sometimes we get them to do a pelt each and then we'll sew them together. And that process of doing that is, um, and Bruce Perry talks about that rhythmic pattern repetitive.
Speaker 1 00:20:08 Well, think about you, you're sewing or you're drawing a blind, like it's just this rhythm. I find the burning of a possum skinny makes you stop and you have to be present because if you go too hard, you burn through, I've lived that many, a time. You burn through the pallet and then it's no good. So, you know, doing things like that, but having the discussions as well, cause people are regulated, it's sensory, including a whole body experience rather than just the narrative of it. All I know, like people say that may people go, oh, you know, we're, um, we have an oral history and we talk about it a lot. And, and one of the things I, I personally struggled with, and this is, you know, my only thinking is if you get someone to talk about their former experience, generally they become heightened and they weren't able to tell and they just write down.
Speaker 1 00:20:55 So one of the things is what are you doing? Therapeutically? That's going to calm somebody before you start getting some of the story yet. So for instance, EMDR, which is an eye movement therapy, which, which I do, I will use that to take. Cause you don't have to tell your story. So for me, that helps take the feeling and the emotion it's still there and your memory is still there of it, but it helped takes a lot of the sting out. So you can actually tell your story without being overcome by emotion. And then we can talk about it till the cows come home, you know, but, um, I think getting people regulated, um, another thing is, you know, using water, water is really healing for our mobs. So what is the way you use that maybe even if it's group or a family getting an outage to a smoking pre and post symbols, what are the symbols that people have or use?
Speaker 1 00:21:48 And I've used with a family where we put symbols on, on rocks and, um, then we've also written under the symbol, you know what it is. Um, and we've done that with emotions and different things. It's just been, we've been really creative with lots of what, of what we do like different settings, um, bringing in for instance, gum leaves. Um, and they're all different smells, of course. So being able to use a sensory of crushing the family thing, your hand, and then being able to smell it and bringing you back to the present and, you know, there's just a range of can use it's about being creative and a think. Well, my belief is that most people, uh, okay with it is once you bring culture into the room, it settles people and it, they feel safer and more regulated. How
Speaker 0 00:22:33 Could a care maintain connection to family, culture, community, and spirituality to support Aboriginal children's, social and emotional wellbeing.
Speaker 1 00:22:43 Um, it's really tricky. It's really hard. One make a connection with an Aboriginal organization that can support you in this, but also making connections with community. And I know it's hard for some people that have never been within the Aboriginal community before, but I think that's one of the sacrifices, you know, you have to just stand up and make, and if they make that connection themselves and that child comes along on that journey and making that journey together, probably them and the child learning a lot more because a child needs to be immersed in the culture. Um, and there's only so much, you know, Google and a March can do. If that makes sense. I think facilitating those activities and being able to make sure the child turns up and is there, but to also make those meaningful interactions with community and people can turn up to the night of March once a year with a shot, but does the child understand what NAIDOC is? Do they understand what they're marching for? Do they understand whose country they're on? Like all that meaning underneath it needs to make sense for a child to be able to, to it. So we'll go, it's tricky and hard. It's you as the carer need to make connections to facilitate it for the child. How might
Speaker 0 00:23:54 This look if the child has no contact with families, what else can foster care is do if there's no connection,
Speaker 1 00:24:01 One of the things, again, make a connection with the Aboriginal agency. And you know, there's a couple of the young women now, but young girls, I forget how long I've been working system that have said to me, Melbourne is not their mob, but she said, I'm so accepted by the community. And I'm so fortunate. And she says, Vaca made that connection for me, I'm not Mike Foster carers, not anyone but back and made that connection for me. Um, so the agency made the connection for her to mob and community, by being able for other Aboriginal people, to take her out into those other spaces and give her opportunities to meet and participate, um, that she probably never would have had. But those connections is going to make your life easier as a foster carer, because you're not going to get all that, trying to understand themselves later in life.
Speaker 1 00:24:53 And really, you know, all that hurt and pain, that's there from not understanding. And you know, so hopefully not turning to drugs and alcohol and, you know, down that path, you're going to save a lot of heartache in that sense, but think that trauma work as well needs to be done and exact form of work's not done. There's still not a sense of self anyway. And I think the system's really bad for any child to actually get some form of trauma therapy, really good form of therapy that they can come out the other side, just being able to make safe, healthy life choices, unless they've got this brilliant carer that really fights. And I've seen that as well, that trauma isn't integrated into their life. It's just this piece of their life that just sits there and haunts them. So to speak here. So
Speaker 0 00:25:42 How can foster parents or carers support that trauma healing? What could they do?
Speaker 1 00:25:49 Oh, their advocacy too, whilst the child still under orders in the system would be that advocacy back to the system. You know, that we're not doing anything to heal this child from a, B and C, whatever that trauma history looks like. Um, and being aware that children with former aren't the same as the children you've brought up. So they need to be parented differently and being able to say, oh, I don't know that. And being able to connect with the system set, I need training in that. I need training in this. I don't understand it. Give me something to read or somewhere to go. And the more you understand, the more you'll actually be able to advocate for what's right for that child. And we all don't know everything. So I think being able to say that there's difference, um, or something's not quite right, but you don't know why. And being able to reach out and say, well, what's going on for this child. And we're a lot more aware of it these days. And there's more sort of research done around former and what that means and how it affects the brain and the body. And so it's all there and people have got ways of healing, you know, and we've, we've looked at the other side as well. So, you know, I'd say, go and do research cause you can advocate so much better.
Speaker 0 00:27:00 How can practitioners help children make sense of this situation and disconnection?
Speaker 1 00:27:06 I would say, um, that truth telling is really, really important for any child. That's got any disconnect because kids are good at making up what's happened and making sense of it. I think that truth telling around why they are, where they are. One of the things I found in the work that I've done is I've looked for stuff on it, but I can't really find it at this point. So maybe I'm going to have to do something. Some research on it is separating the trauma from Aboriginality and that it's not the Aboriginality that hurt you. Like there's the trauma and it's usually a person, but it's not particularly, it's not because they're Aboriginal. So I think that's really, really important when making sense of what's going on for the child, but also, um, again, they can make sense of it as well, by connection to culture and in what form, what shape or form that comes with. It shows them that our culture is it's not harmful, if that makes sense. And sometimes we need to do that because as kids, you know, many child said to me, I don't want to be Aboriginal. Why it would be Aboriginal because you hurt people because someone's done this to me or so that's not this person I'm Aboriginal. Do I know you're one of the good ones and being able to take the time to separate it out for them and make sense of it. I think that's a really, really important part.
Speaker 0 00:28:29 There was a lot of uncertainty for Aboriginal kinship, carers and children. What are some of the strategies to help them manage these daily uncertainties?
Speaker 1 00:28:38 So it's tricky for kinship carers. So there's lots for foster carers. There's all this training and there's money to be a foster carer. And then that goes down in levels depending on the trauma of the child. And then you've got the kinship carers and depending on what state and where they are, it depends on what supports they get. So there's minimal trauma training for kinship carers. And I think that's about people particularly don't want to trigger the kinship care because you know, it's their trauma too. It's their story too, because obviously they're related to that child. So one of the things is around your own healing as a kinship carer, is are there parts of yourself that you need to still heal? And I'd really encourage that to be done, even if you take the child on, cause it's, your responses need to be different than a trauma response than the child, because that's not going to work.
Speaker 1 00:29:36 I think the other thing is a really clear routines for everybody in house so that everybody knows what's coming next because life's uncertain at this point, you know, you've got the department involved, you've probably got several different agencies involved depending on what's going on. And so being able to keep a clear routine, not only for the kinship care, but the children and run a lot more smoothly again, that understanding that parenting, um, child with format is different. So really being able to understand that. And I think also sometimes with doing that work, you start to understand yourself a lot better. One of the best things I've ever done is I've just done. All my studies is around trauma and so much helped me understand my dad's trauma story. Um, you know, my family a lot better, our mob as a whole. And I think it helped heal me because I was able to make sense of it.
Speaker 1 00:30:33 So I would really encourage kinship carers to really reach out and do some of that understanding because it makes sense of yourself. Doesn't mean you have to go to a therapist and talk and you know, all that stuff, whatever you don't want to do, you don't just, just understanding what it means is usually helpful. If you're struggling, you can ask for help. It doesn't mean you're failing. It also doesn't mean the system's going to take the child off you. I think it's a strength if you're struggling, because then you're going to get strategies. You're going to be offered different ways. That can be helpful. You may also be offered some respite care. Now I always say I'm a single mum and I have respite care when the Annie's or Nan or someone takes my daughter. She's not with me 24 seven. And so doing that is similar to that.
Speaker 1 00:31:25 Um, so don't be afraid to set. I need a break this weekend. That's okay. Like you're not letting anybody down. You're actually doing your own self care. My other advice would be, if you're a kinship carer, you're able to immerse the kid in culture. And I would say that would probably be really healing for both of you as a family. Um, you know, we see so many granny's and Annie's take on extra kids all the time, even though they're struggling. And I, you know, I just honor, I honor our women that do that and men do it as well, but I see more about women and don't feel guilty if you can't do something because we can't do it all. And that even if a kinship placement breaks down, they're still your family and it's okay. And how you fix that and move on is up to yourself, but really reaching out and healing that space kinship is just such a tricky space because we put kids really back into a family that has the same format sometimes.
Speaker 1 00:32:25 And it just doesn't work sometimes without the supports that our foster care would get, which is just wrong, just because you're family doesn't mean you don't need those extra dollars talk after a child, or you don't need that counseling. We don't need this. So you don't need that. You bloody do. You've usually got like four of your own and then you're bringing on another one. So yeah, and a lot of our moms don't put up their hand because they're worried that if they do they'll get judged and then their own kids will go. So there's lots of barriers to being a kinship carer. How would you
Speaker 0 00:32:55 Help kinship carers balance the dynamics within the family?
Speaker 1 00:33:00 I've seen probably, and I've seen this quite a few times where grandma will take on the child and the system says to them, okay, but your daughter can't come and visit, which is the mother can't come and visit, um, this house. She's not let her in this house. And you're like, you can't, that's the daughter. You can't even say that. Like how can you play someone there and then say that your son or daughter can't visit them because you know, it's going to happen. And then once it happens, then you're going to remove the child again. You know? So there's barriers to that, you know, I'd be saying, okay, so it's your son or daughter, they're going to come and visit you. How are we gonna manage this and put things around and do a differently in that space rather than saying, you know, to our mob, you can't see our mob. Like, that's ridiculous. That's just setting people up to fail. But you know, I think kinship care is needed big pat on the back. And they really need to look after themselves because they don't and they, you know, want to do what's best because they don't want to see the kids go in the system and totally get it.
Speaker 0 00:34:03 I totally agree with you, Suzanne. So as we close, I wondered if you had any final words or hopes for our community.
Speaker 1 00:34:12 Uh, I guess just keep going in the struggle because every day it's something else. And one day we're going to come up and we'll start saying what we've been talking about in action. Always take on the mindset of what my ancestors did and go, if they could do that, then may sitting here talking about it or marching for it, or whatever needs to be done is nothing compared to the platform that they've given us. You know, I wouldn't be sitting here with a voice today, had they not done what they'd done. So I think we just have to honor that and keep up the struggle, but also, um, keep yourself well within that. I think that's really, really important. You can't hold others if you're not okay. And I think, you know, we're always good at giving advice. I know I am, and then I'll be like, come to Paul Rucker. I'll go, I've got to take my own advice, but that integrating it into your everyday life and what that looks like is really important. So looking after yourself, whilst you're in the struggle, I think is really important.
Speaker 0 00:35:10 Thank you for joining us in our podcast series, listening to stories of
[email protected]. Do they you to access a range of resources to assist your practice, brought to you by the national workforce center for child mental health led by emerging mines, the national workforce center for child mental health is funded by the Australian government department of health, under the national support for child and youth mental health program. <inaudible>.
